April 09, 2013

??!?!?! "I'll Risk It" ?!?!?!?!


Weaving is normally my fav. time of the year!!  I LOVE IT.  This group of 4th graders though have been taking some of the joy out of the project for me.  Yesterday...I felt my blood pressure rise(and I don't have high blood pressure).  I sat by a student that usually gives me some trouble in class...and noticed he had double jumped his string.  So I pointed out his mistake, and told him just to go back a couple rows and fix it....NO BIG DEAL!   He looks at me and says... "I'LL RISK IT."  I wasn't really sure what he was talking about...so I pointed to the mistake again and told him to go back and fix it.  He says again..."I'LL RISK IT"  I say....RISK WHAT?  He repeats himself..."I'll risk it".  I realize he is telling me in his short yet disrespectful phrase... I'M NOT GONNA FIX ANYTHING..I'LL RISK THE CONSEQUENCES...I DON'T CARE TO DO WHAT YOU ARE TELLING ME TO DO.  

WHAT?!?!?!??!?! 

When this all clicked in my head...I told him..."You aren't risking anything...YOU WILL GET AN F! "
He says once more with a smile on his face..."I'll risk it."  OH MY GOSH.  Walk away...just walk away!!! (I told myself)  Have you all heard this phrase?!??!?!  My sister..who works in social work...says that is a new thing with the high school kids. I told my friend Janet...she told me the next time he says it...to get the scissors out  and cut it apart..and say...RISK THAT! ha ha ha


30 comments:

  1. Arghh!!! I've been though this. The challenge is that the kids know that an F in art isn't going to keep them out of 5th grade, or out of anything. There's no repercussion that stresses the value of art instruction and the kids know it, so laziness wins out. If the kid doesn't care, cutting apart his project probably won't faze him either.

    And sadly, in my experience, a phone call home in a case like this doesn't help either, because chances are, the parent could care less whether or not Johnny brings home some stupid weaving. Like I said, ARGHH.

    This stuff will continue to happen until we can find a way of making the value of art education really obvious. We all know the value, but the truth is, art education falls to the bottom of a lot of lists, getting cut first and added last. We need to remain strong advocates and hope things will get better.

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  2. I'm sorry, and I respect you both but I beg to differ. He has told you that he is not engaged in this lesson. He would rather get an F than to work on this weaving-something that does not in any way relate to his life. Perhaps rather than blow up, ask him to come up with a project that is equal to the work his classmates are doing but is more meaningful to him. If this kid comes from one of "those" homes, a weaving is going to be thrown in the trash if it even gets to the home. Why should he care about skipping a row in a (to him) meaningless weaving if his work will not be valued? Once he does work on the alternative piece, praise his efforts and if he doesn't want it, ask if you can take it. You want to show others his good work. This is a method I have tried frequently and it works more often than not.

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    1. Carol, thank you for your perspective. The thing is, he doesn't come from that kind of background. I actually have a handful of children from terribly difficult situations...who are loving weaving. He just believes the world revolves around him, and that are no consequences for his actions. Plus, our curriculum builds..and if he doesn't have to do this now, he'll be lost when he has to do the "next step" in middle school.

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    2. I'm an art teacher. I understand the reason behind giving students lessons that are meaningful (and believe me, we've been told over and over to provide meaningful education).

      The problem is, if we were to provide only education that's meaningful to the students, then most of the students wouldn't be learning anything about history ("Why should I care what happened in the past?"), math ("Seriously? When was the last time you used algebra?"), and other subjects.

      But of course, we know better. Every subject is important and has its place in the life of a child. I don't believe that providing students with "choices" every time is good nor beneficial because they get used to having things their way. I've seen it happen too many times. Whenever they don't want to do something, they simply ask "I don't want to do this, so what else will you give me to do?" Call me old-fashioned, but I believe students need to respect authority and just do as they're asked without challenging it constantly. They can question, of course (and I encourage them to), but there comes a time when students need to accept that things aren't always going to go their way.

      If they have a hard time completing the work because they don't feel that they have the skills necessary to complete the specified task, then I'll gladly help them. If they have a hard time doing the work because they find it boring...well, I say too bad - not everything is fun and exciting in life, but they'll still learn something if they put in the effort. It's the effort they put in that makes a difference in my book, not their skills.

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    3. Carol,
      I've got to respectfully disagree with you as well. At that point, I think you are allowing a rude child to undermine the hard work that you have put into designing a high quality lesson. There is too much coddling these days with difficult students. It just isn't possible to allow each student who doesn't love a project to come up with one of their own when you teach 500+ students. In that situation, I would very politely and calmly tell the student that they have the choice of doing their project correctly in art class or during his recess. Maybe I'm just a hard-ass!

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    4. Zach...sometimes I wish blogspot had a like button!! :) ha ha- Mr. E

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    5. Carol,
      I too have to disagree with you. While I understand what you are saying if a project is too easy or not engaging it is hard to get that student to care about their work. I have had colleagues who have said similar things about students in their classes, most of these core teachers. I find that when a core teacher is working on a project with their student altering it to meet more of the students likes and dislikes is easier. However, I find that in my class I will have students who really love one assignment and then hate the next. I can't cater to each student and create 325+ different curriculum to meet each students likes and dislikes. I don't know what you teach or what level but at some point we all have to do something we don't like. I hate taking attendance, but I know I have to do it every day because my job depends on it. In my class, I always allow my students to have an opportunity for creativity. They can alter the project slightly but still meet my requirements. This allows the students to feel a little bit more in control of their learning, instead of feeling like they are regurgitating the same object I just taught. I try to layout the objects that I am looking for but leave room for certain personal style.

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  3. Haha! What a bold little thing! I used to think I had low blood pressure too. But, a comment like that is MILD where I teach. We spend two days (TWO T W O) days writing a one page composition about our Koi fish project in seventh grade because the students whined it was "too much" and "too hard" and "unfair." I used to think behavior like that was all my fault and and looked to my classroom management. But, in reality, it is a school-wide problem and is indicative of the environment in which I teach. So, I am constantly tweaking my classroom management to get more out of my students, but I deal with A LOT of complaining.

    I have several students -middle schoolers- who fail every quarter because they refuse to work. What I have come to realize is that they are so afraid of their own perceived academic inadequacies that they would rather voluntarily fail than try and be anything less than one of the best. At least that way they can tell their pals: "I didn't do anything. I'm still smart." Which, incidentally, I hear A LOT too.

    It is, sometimes, an uphill battle. But, I'm no Sisyphus; I'll make it to the top. . . And, so will you.

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  4. I started my fibers units this week. This post sends shivers down my spine. Kids either adore yarn lessons or hate it.

    I told one class of kids this week that the project they were working on would be the last thing I would grade for this report card. Several were incredulous. "Art gets a grade on our report cards????????" Sigh.

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  5. As frustrating as it can be working with some students chances are that if he " will risk it " in your class he is probably doing the same in others. I work with a lot of kids with behavior issues. We actually have a class(k-2 , 3-5 and 6-8 ) called our BD class that some of these children have been placed into to help them learn how to use appropriate behavior and make correct choices. We have several wonderful , caring teachers and assistants who work and care for these students. They are held accountable to the same rules as the other students. For some of them school is their only source of stability. I always try to find out as much as I can about these guys so i can understand where they are coming from. From there I try to build a trust and respect with them. It is not easy and always takes some time . Don't get me wrong there have been a few that just didn't care , they don't care ,their parents don't care , they just don't care. It is a sad reality that unfortunately is becoming more and more prevalent. As teachers we keep plugging away to show them that we do care and that what they say and do does matter.

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  6. Huh. Mine seem very content to have me un-weave their mistakes, and are not at all concerned that we've been weaving for two classes now, and some are not on the 2nd color!!!

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  7. I get this all the time, too. My standard response is with this question: "Would you answer your classroom teacher this way or is that unacceptable?" When I receive a "I would never do that" then I tell them to treat my class with the same respect, that I am deserving. Sometimes...it works.

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  8. I usually don't even grade projects because really the grades are inconsequential especially given all the tests and emphasis on grades and numbers elementary kids have to take these days in their general education classroom. I do, however, display their work, and that includes the students who rush, don't follow directions, and who don't necessarily try their hardest. I'm amazed at how much this motivates them to try a little bit more on their projects. I would make sure to display his project along with other students, it may bolster his motivation to give it a bit more effort knowing that others may see it especially if the surrounding projects are a little better than his.

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    1. Depends where you are from. Ith the new standards and assessments, concrete grades are now a requirement in many states, so in many cases grading rubrics are developed for every project. My solution would be to have the following on the rubric: works with positive attitude, follows instructions, completes work as required, craftsmanship, participating, etc. don't stress too much, but score with the rubric and therefore the little bugger gets a poor grade. But still, the kid who doesn't care won't care if he has a lousy grade, either.

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  9. I've got a rotten little booger that tells me "I'm on strike" a lot. The first time he kept saying it, I responded, "What does that even mean?" .... it was so cute, the "good kids" were literally trying to explain to me, "A strike is when someone doesn't want to do something anymore and..."

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  10. I totally understand your smokin' blood pressure, Ted. We've all had that kid at sometime in our teaching career. My situation this week is a little different. I have a better than average artist in the fourth grade who treats me with such unmitigated disrespect and I actually had to keep my hands in my apron pockets so I wouldn't slap his smarmy little face! His mother won't return my phone calls so I'm going to put his snotty little transgressions in writing and send it to her!

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  11. Me yet again... Simple solution; what I might have done: don't tell the kid to rip back and fix it; just rip the rows out and hand it back to the kid. Of course then he might decide to risk doing nothing at all.

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  12. Oh my gosh I would've screamed! Haha good for you for walking away! :)


    http://artwithmsgram.blogspot.com/

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  13. Ahh. I think EVERYONE can relate.

    At our school, we call this the "ATL" or "Above the Law" student. In my experience, to be considered "ATL", you just don't care what any expectations are - you make up your own. And most of these kids do not come from "those homes", like you said. These students simply believe, wholeheartedly that if they do not want to do something (or need attention), then they won't and they are fully informed to know that getting an "F" and art won't do anything to them until 9th grade...and even then..........

    Ms. Amy put it best - many of our students would rather choose to fail then come in second - it is a tough environment for these kids where competition plays a large roll in our life.

    We are just finishing up my 5th grade weaving unit this cycle - and I don't know if it's just the group of kids or the updated lesson - but we weave, and I kid you not, for about 4 full class periods (plus one to set up and one to finish) from start to finish. They make "Gadget Bags" from their weavings and having a bag seems to be the key ingredient to 99% of them enjoying the weaving - we talk about textiles and making other fabrics/knitting/etc. In fact, when I tell them we are finishing up, a lot of them whine that we should "weave forever". When I first started here, I mirrored the previous teacher's lesson on weaving and not only did it last FOREVER but it was just a hanging weaving - purposeful as a pretty wall piece, BUT the kids were bored since nothing every happened with the weaving that would benefit them.

    Most the ATL kids tend to say "this is work for my grandma" or "I messed up and I don't want to fix it" (sound familiar?). Best luck I've had with those students is to stay close to their area and remind them that the only way we can move on from weaving is to finish and because we are a team at this school, we all must work together to meet that goal.

    There will always be that one student (or more). And for them, I just remind myself that if my kids are EVER like that, oh boy. HA!

    Good luck!

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  14. It's art, not a legal justice class . . . let him do his art.

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    1. There are actually rules to some things. There are also standards...that I am being held to & the student is being held to. That kind of attitude is fine at home, but I am not hear to let the kids play...I'm hear to teach them something.

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  15. You know how to get responses to your blog MrE. I think you've touched a nerve, one we don't always share. As Ms Amy commented, we think it's our fault, our poor management. It rarely is. I had a new 10 year old student to our school tell me he hated art. He was disruptive with it. Funny thing was, his lino print was chosen along with 5 others, to go into our school auction. It sold for $170. It wasn't art I would choose but it turned him around.
    Your blood pressure is more important than a rude kid with a bad attitude. Take care of yourself.

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    1. Gretchen...and the crazy thing about it, I was really just wondering if people had heard that phrase before?!?! :) HA HA People didn't mind sharin' their opinion though did they?!!? I don't mind, I'm not offended by anything anyone has said...everyone is welcome to their thoughts and how they deal with things. It is good to hear how others handle such situations!!!! The only problem I have is when people don't consider I have a curriculum to follow & I must assess these students. So many still think art is just play...and we're just craft teachers....that there is no wrong or write. BLAH..and Pish Posh! :) hee hee

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  16. I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one feeling like giving up at times. Some of the art blogs make everything sound so perfect!! Thanks for sharing your experience. I laughed out loud because I've been there. Haven't heard the phrase yet but I'm sure I will. Finishing up 3rd quarter and been chasing students down for their sketchbooks--drives me crazy!! If not handed in I have to give an incomplete on report cards and hope they turn it in within 2 weeks so I can finally give them a grade.

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  17. Ha, I probably would have said something silly like, "then you will epic fail." Sometimes you do have to demand respect. Respect for self and others is often the greater lesson we end up teaching.

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  18. Wow! This issue DID create a firestorm. I'd like to re-comment. I have basically 2 kinds of kids in my classes; the ones whose home lives are horrific (My husband & I consider a good week one in which we don't read about our students or family in the court news), and the enabled (whose parents are probably dealing with the same issues you are, but would probably not admit it). Than is where your rubrics come in. If the student did not meet the standard, then the student did not meet the standard. It's not a power struggle, its a fact. I take photos of my exemplars so that if there is a question, I can say, "This is a 4, this is a 3," and so on. No emotion. Your choice, your consequence. Oh well...Just wait until the kid is in Driver's Ed!

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  19. Wow! This issue DID create a firestorm. I'd like to re-comment. I have basically 2 kinds of kids in my classes; the ones whose home lives are horrific (My husband & I consider a good week one in which we don't read about our students or family in the court news), and the enabled (whose parents are probably dealing with the same issues you are, but would probably not admit it). Than is where your rubrics come in. If the student did not meet the standard, then the student did not meet the standard. It's not a power struggle, its a fact. I take photos of my exemplars so that if there is a question, I can say, "This is a 4, this is a 3," and so on. No emotion. Your choice, your consequence. Oh well...Just wait until the kid is in Driver's Ed!

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  20. Hi Mr. E! I am a huge fan of your blog. The only thing I wanted to say is he must have issues going on at home or elsewhere. My husband is a youth pastor so we have seen it all. Sometimes certain kids need extra grace. I know you will get through to him! Blessings!

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  21. I read this post way back when it had just one or two comments. You sure struck a nerve. As a homeschool parent, I can't offer my kids what you do. I am thankful that you and other teachers freely share your expertise. We have also started having an art teacher come to our home every other week which has been a tremendous blessing. What makes me sad is that this student is cheating himself of an opportunity to learn with a teacher who cares. I can see how some people view art as more open ended or not result focused- I can also see how effort on the student's part is everything. Outside of class, the student can take what he has learned and explore and create on his own without parameters.

    Also, I have to tell you that your tornado story is amazing! I think you must beat all first year teachings stories! :)

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  22. What a great conversation!
    Mr. E - I enjoyed seeing your presentation in Ft. Worth this year - great to put a person to a blog!
    I'm a 15 year veteran this year too - no coffee cups here in WY, though.... :)

    Love all the perspectives - so many ways to look at an issue.
    My feeling is that a big part of art is craftsmanship, and sometimes "doing it right" is important, whether you're engaged in the self expression part of the work or not.
    Over, under, over, under is a first grade (maybe kindergarten) skill, and a fifth grader that's not willing to fix a goof is just being lazy. I'd say "Yep - risk away." and let him continue, then bring him in over lunch recess, or pull him out of PE or something he likes and say "Craftsmanship is important here - I know you have the skill to get this right, and you'll be SO much more proud of your work if it's your best work. So - you're welcome to head back to your regularly scheduled school day as soon as your weaving shows the skill correctly. Take as long as you need."
    I actually use that quite a bit, and seldom have to do it twice. Working on a weaving in a classroom full of second graders is humbling, but I use it as a teachable moment.
    Little kids: "Why is he here?"
    Me: "Oh - he needed a little more time on this beautiful weaving he's got going. Look! Isn't it gorgeous? He's a really good weaver. You guys will do this in fifth grade too."
    And the little kids say "Wow! That's awesome!"

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